"Torture" boys detained.

[Clevercat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8472265.stm

Frightening that such depraved behaviour can be carried out by people, I hope the boys recieve full support and counselling on their road to recovery after such a horrific ordeal.

[Mike Hawkins]

http://news.aol.co.uk/torture-boys-detained-indefinitely/article/20100122071109122415693

I somehow believe the minimum term to be served is far too short in this case.

The background of these two, at the very least, is going to take more than 5 years to be repaired. This case was, in my opinion worse than the Bulger case (I know, that one did end in the boys death) in the pure sadism of these two.

Also, they would only be 16/17 years old at the time of release. I've no doubt somebody will disagree!

[Clevercat]

Merged topics.

I find this story shocking to the core, poor poor boys.

[Jayday]

Mike,

The boys were given an  indeterminate sentence, which is effectively a life sentence with a minimum tariff (in this case 5 years). I agree the minimum tariff is low however it is highly unlikely they will be released after five years or ever, especially after a psychiatrist described the older boy as being in danger of becoming a "seriously disturbed psychopathic offender".

No indeterminate sentence prisoner can expect to be released before they have served the tariff period in full. However, release on expiry of the tariff period is not automatic. Release will only take place once this period has been served and the Parole Board is satisfied that the risk of harm the prisoner poses to the public is acceptable. This means that indeterminate sentence prisoners could remain in prison for many more years on preventative grounds. http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/adviceandsupport/prison_life/lifesentencedprisoners/

[Mike Hawkins]

Jayday, thanks for that info. 

I agree that the five years is the minimum tariff, but I felt that in view of the backgrounds and seriousness of the crime ("I only stopped because my arms were tired") I believe that (a) no real progress towards rehabilitation is possible in that time (if at all), and (b) it will not take five years for the "bleeding hearts" groups to be petitioning for their release.

We have become too used to horrendous crimes in this country in recent years, including sickening acts of violence by kids, but, I think this has been one of the worst cases yet!

[Mike Hawkins]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8472265.stm

Frightening that such depraved behaviour can be carried out by people, I hope the boys recieve full support and counselling on their road to recovery after such a horrific ordeal.

I hope you mean the victims and not the perpetrators!!

[Yokel1]

I hope that full support and counselling is given to all four boys - for without it at two have been through an experience that has scarred them for life, and two will never understand what is right and wrong, and will always present a danger to society.

I was watching it on the big screen here and someone stood next to me said “It’s disgusting, they should be sent down as adult criminals”.

I couldn’t agree with that less – to me there were 4 victims in this case as you have to ask what sort of upbringing such boys had to make them behave this way, and believe it acceptable.   They are BOYS, so young, with a version of what is right and what is wrong given to them by their upbringing – at that age independent thought is minimal  (f***ed up people come from f***ed up families – look at the case of Baby P).

To me the length of the sentence is immaterial – it is well known that detention can have seriously negative effects on adults, let alone young boys, so to me the sentence has to be “How long it takes to resolve the issues that these boys have before detention makes them even more damaged than they are already”.  Be that 5,10, 15, 20,25 years…….and thats what the indeterminate sentence is.   

Lets be honest, a 5 year sentence is basically 50% of their lives so far, in proportionate terms most murderers don’t even get that.

No doubt there’ll be a facebook “cause” about sending them down forever, and 500,000 ignorant people will sign up to it.

I note for the extremely  high profiles there's been a tendency to give open ended sentences - I wonder if this is a way to calm public hysteria?

[Jayday]

I note for the extremely  high profiles there's been a tendency to give open ended sentences - I wonder if this is a way to calm public hysteria?

They are quite common Yokel, in fact a couple of Westbury folk have been sentenced to indeterminate sentences. They came about to stop offenders who are still a danger from being released. Basically they are kept locked up until they are little or no threat to the public.

[Yokel1]

makes sense.

[Mike Hawkins]

I note for the extremely  high profiles there's been a tendency to give open ended sentences - I wonder if this is a way to calm public hysteria?

They are quite common Yokel, in fact a couple of Westbury folk have been sentenced to indeterminate sentences. They came about to stop offenders who are still a danger from being released. Basically they are kept locked up until they are little or no threat to the public.

That makes sense to me also. One person could be sentenced to a fixed term and at the end of it still be a threat - as has been proved on far too many occasions, whilst others with the same sentence were probably never a threat to others anyway.

Jayday, I presume that even after release they are still subject to recall if they re-offend?

[Yokel1]

There seems to be a lot of cases of early releases performaing criminal acts on  release - I wonder if the process for guaging early release works properly?

Say the boys had actually murdered?   It's ironic how many people are calling for the boys to be tried and treated like adults, versus how many of these people would support the death sentence...... yet would be horrified if an 11 year old was sent to the gallows.

[Mike Hawkins]

There seems to be a lot of cases of early releases performaing criminal acts on  release - I wonder if the process for guaging early release works properly?

Yokel1,

I do wonder whether the recent spate of early releases is more to do with saving money and "freeing up" prison places rather than ensuring society is safe.

[Jayday]

Jayday, I presume that even after release they are still subject to recall if they re-offend?

Offenders sentenced to an indeterminate sentence can apply to have their licence cancelled ten years after their release. If refused they can then apply annually. During their time 'on licence' they can be recalled to prison to continue serving their sentence if it is considered necessary to protect the public.

This is differs from offenders who have been sentenced to life imprisonment, as they are on licence until they die.

[Yokel1]

How come you know so much about this??!!   

[Clevercat]

No Mike, I meant the victims of course, although I have to agree the other two who committed such a horrific crime are obviously victim of something entirely different one would assume.